What does it mean to be 'Toltec'?

[Jaguar Warrior]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 strings that had vibration

[Lori Anne]

I'm not that interested in them as such. I do have an interest in Native American Culture but what I have found from what has become 'Toltec Knowledge' is something that has no real grounding in being a culture, tribe, nation or society. That said, what I beleive it to be integrates into all cultures, tribes, nations and societies.

Interesting as I've found, if you go back much farther than CC and dJM especially to cultures such as the Olmecas you will find much culture.   Rich themes rituals and traditions and I might even say "religion'.

[Lori Anne]

PS

Kris has other forums.
 

[daphne]

One thing on Tonal-Dressing and then I'm done...
   ...It doesn't matter what we wear as such. By this I mean that we can adopt knowledge systems, methods and cultural behaviors or clothing but these are not the things to look for and judge. A true Toltec Warrior as I understand them looks behind, through, at and around these items and watches the 'dreaming' the 'seeing' and the winds of the nagual that blow through that personal dream.
I don't know if you know what I mean.

-The Witness-

Whats your point, Daniel? You lost me a few posts ago..   

From my perspective.. there is no such entity as a "toltec" and so therefore, "what does it mean to be 'Toltec' would have to pass through each and every ones own filters.. hence the ENDLESS discussions over the years.. not least of them yours.      

Your books look very nice, btw   

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

Maybe Ruiz is more 'tonal' than 'nagual' is why

Don Miguel, yes that is very nice, but...

The centance above describes how I feel about Ruiz's work. He brings 'Toltec' into self-help, agreeable vibrations, and convenient arangements. Don't get me wrong, I think his books are great and that they help the tonal. If I open up the 'but' in my centance I can pull out a lot of things. One is that the eagle is not really that agreeable. The eagle is unfathomable, a tyrant, at times harsh and offensive. I find that Ruiz's preference for positivity seems a little like turning away from certain realities. In Castaneda's world the Apprentices we warned about making the whole of the creation fit into a nice cosy description that was convenient to them. But this is what Ruiz appears to have done. When he describes what the Tonal & Nagaul are he describes the Nagual as the space between the stars. For me, that doesn't quite match. For me, the space between the stars is the Tonal as well. I also don't feel Ruiz's energy as 'Dreaming Awareness'. Nor do I really acknowledge his 'Seeing', not as Castaneda's world described. Ruiz world when related to the 8 points of a luminous-being seems to dipict 'Talking' as the main event. In fact Ruiz goes as far to say that 'our word' is the magic we have as Humans.
Again, let me state that I find worth in Ruiz's teachings. I find them of great value in fact for my own 'reason', 'talking' and some of my 'feeling'. In fact it has provided me with material to help my 'tonal' overall. So thanks Miguel.
One draw back though is that we should aim to make everything agreeable. This short sights people, it certainly did in Forums for years. I will talk about this later.

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

Thats an excellent point. I dont think anyone can really call themselves 'toltec,' and even CC and his books, don juan - never called himself or anyone really 'toltec.' His references to any toltec were if anything, more related to the past. He did say 'nagual' and 'sorcerer' and 'warrior,' but not 'toltec.' The toltec is more of a nationality/culture of a people. So no one can really claim to 'be toltec.'

Whats your point, Daniel? You lost me a few posts ago..   

From my perspective.. there is no such entity as a "toltec" and so therefore, "what does it mean to be 'Toltec' would have to pass through each and every ones own filters.. hence the ENDLESS discussions over the years.. not least of them yours.      

Your books look very nice, btw   

[Lori Anne]

Maybe Ruiz is more 'tonal' than 'nagual' is why

I see Ruiz as more heart-centred.
 

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

I see Ruiz as more heart-centred.
 

I do too, I believe he is. He did include the Mastery of Love, and it could be per the Masteries - time to include this. Course, I am still big on the original CC mind you of it being 'dark' and it being about delving into the unknown. I dont see dark as most should know by now as evil or something to avoid. Thats not the way to deal with our unconscious self - I see it as that, and an area where we need to go into, and illuminate things. Or else we can remain divided. But anyway, per the Ruiz, I  believe hes done some expanding on the issue. The Four Agreements are still a good primer, and hes written some goodies which are basic and fundamental for others. Of course, I think some of his smokey mirror writing - I would've preferred him to give a bit more original perspective on it. But still there is truth in that - smokey mirror really is simply a tough mirror - I dont believe spirit wants folks to go mad when facing themselves like the stories of Tez have shown. However, still, that obsidian mirror is very powerful indeed.

[Lori Anne]

I sent this topic over to Forest Wolf. Could post the reply if you wanted.

I was not aware that Forest was now active on the Net again.  Last I heard she had taken leave of forums and all things related.  Tell her I said hello when you speak to her next, would you?
 

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

I was not aware that Forest was now active on the Net again.  Last I heard she had taken leave of forums and all things related.  Tell her I said hello when you speak to her next, would you?
 

You mean she got released? Hehhehe!

[daphne]

I also want to add on 2 more points to this, 'this' simply being a description of the Toltec Trail as it has unfolded into my perception. To ignore the conlictual layer or the Forum episodes Daphs would be to not relay the story as it occured. I could have left it out in order to be polite or avoid, but that is not how I act. How on earth after all these years can you think I would leave it out, could think that I would act and be concerned about how my fellow man reads it or reacts to what I have layed out in my description? How can you be lost in the post? The are simply topics such as Castaneda, Ruiz, and other webs of knowledge that have been passed won for years through books and onto Forums. If you want people to hold an impression that I am confusing then ok, but that is your act, one that you uphold with a few others.

We all pluck on the chords of what has been layed out by a poster. 6 or so strings may be laid down like a harp left with no intention on the side. It is when the passers by pick it up and only pluck one string that you see what the parserby feels is of worth.

 

The 2 additional points that I will add are:

6) Victor Sanchez

7) Merilyn Tunneshende

* Note; I am not stating the above to make the theme of *Toltec Warriors* important. It should be evident from the posts that my point is to highlight the aspects that have value for me personally, such as the 8 points of Luminous-Beings.

"What's your point Daniel"?

My point/ is here, as above. Actually I have highlight specific points and given them numbers to help. Can I ask what your point is?

 

My point, Daniel, is that you have so much to offer of your perceptions, a really unique way that has (and has had) much value for me over the years... then you go and lose the observer/witness status you are so fond of describing yourself as, by reaching conclusions. Not that there is anything wrong with that.. I reach conclusions all the time! *lol* just that I know they're conclusions and that I am full of ****!

Many, if not most of the people on the 'new' forums have no idea who the people are that you talk about, and probably don't care. You yourself do what you have often accused others of;  ie bringing the past into the present and not moving on. That it is part of your journey, I don't doubt; though we are years moved on from then and new things must be happening in your journey?

You didn't lose me through any confusion, you lost me through repetition. That's my loss too, because I may probably have missed out on something else and different, but for me, time is too short to go over and over the same things again. That old 4th enemy, ya know! (makes me cranky)   

No, I don't expect you to be concerned about how your fellow men take your posts your posts or react to them - you've made that clear enough over the years... though I would like to ask you.. did you have a reaction to my post, eh? 

Perhaps I am simply plucking my own one string on the chord of the infinite, as the wind sings through it 
At the least it got you to communicate back out of your monologue!   

Carry on...   

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

You had us at Hello Daniel! LOL

[Lori Anne]

My point, Daniel, is that you have so much to offer of your perceptions, a really unique way that has (and has had) much value for me over the years... then you go and lose the observer/witness status you are so fond of describing yourself as, by reaching conclusions. Not that there is anything wrong with that.. I reach conclusions all the time! *lol* just that I know they're conclusions and that I am full of ****!

Many, if not most of the people on the 'new' forums have no idea who the people are that you talk about, and probably don't care. You yourself do what you have often accused others of;  ie bringing the past into the present and not moving on. That it is part of your journey, I don't doubt; though we are years moved on from then and new things must be happening in your journey?

You didn't lose me through any confusion, you lost me through repetition. That's my loss too, because I may probably have missed out on something else and different, but for me, time is too short to go over and over the same things again. That old 4th enemy, ya know! (makes me cranky)   

No, I don't expect you to be concerned about how your fellow men take your posts your posts or react to them - you've made that clear enough over the years... though I would like to ask you.. did you have a reaction to my post, eh? 

Perhaps I am simply plucking my own one string on the chord of the infinite, as the wind sings through it 
At the least it got you to communicate back out of your monologue!   

Carry on...   

Hey, I love you guys!
 

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

And we Love you Lori!!! 

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

Wow, sounds like a year of silence (really spared for us, but surely she cant stop internal or external chatter) didnt do any good. Main issue with fuzzy has always been and always will be - gets too hung up on other folks - or I should say her 'projections onto other folks' in unawareness - to deal with and face that idiot-within who controls the show in her own head. Some people are so resistant to change - locks them up and all they can do is 'swing low sweet chariot' from the limitations of their cells.

She doesnt meditate - thats clear. She avoids it like the plague.

Sad actually. Anyway, tell whatever entity it is from the Laboratory of Legion  this go-round I said "heya."

Will do, and yes she has not been active on forums for about a year now.

Forest reply to the second part of my topic was:

All people are possibilities, containing a "potential" for connection...and all interaction goes in two ways, to open or to close. 
 
Some people like to "control" who, when, and how they will connect...accept this is a silly doing as never works...all one can control is IF their own heart is "open"...or "closed."
 
There are also two other ways of be-ing...one can be "in" the game or "on" the court, like in tennis...or, they can be "in" the stands...watching.  "In" the stands one observes those who are playing and critiuqes them...judging *how* the players are playing the game..."that was a good serve," or "what a rotten serve, what's wrong with him." 
 
From "in" the stands, "genuine-ness" is impossible.  Let me repeat that, if you are "in" the stands, rather that "in" the game, there is NO way in the world that you are be-ing "authentic."  It is simply not-possible. 
 
When we read books, we are "in" the stands...watching, evaulating...and very much removed from life.  And "in" the stands is really just another way of saying, "in" ego...or operating through the ego.  And we know that the ego has pretty much only one function in life...and that is to "separate" you from whatever you are judging. 
 
*What* i going on for the guy "on" the court playing tennis is VERY different from *what* is going on for the people "in" the stands watching him.  Completely different experiences.  And, IF you notice...the people in the stands are not experiencing things like emotions...they are sort of dead in a way...and operating on pre-programmed automatic responses.  Whereas the guy "on" the court is "in" the moment, experiencing it fully.  For him, what is going on is extraordinary.   
 
So the only real question is whether we are going to be "in" the game...or "in" the stands...whether we are going to live life fully, or whether we are simply going to run commentary on those who are living life fully...are we going to open ourselves...or be willing to open up...to experiencing life full on???  Each person needs to decide this for himself...for we are "in" one or the other...and being "in" the stands is certainly safe.
 
Now Daniel, I know, because of your conditioning (which you yourself may not even be aware of) you will react to the word "game"...and your reaction to the word "game" may cause you to miss the meaning.  Or, indeed, your game of being dis-connected, you may not even read this email.  This is something to notice.  When you can un-hinge your mind from the agreements of your surroundings...then new possibilities for understanding can open up for you.  It doesn't affect me whether or not you do...so if you think you are hurting me, or hurting my life any, by not...think again...because your "open-ness" and "closed-ness" affects only you and affects the quality of your life. 
 
I also know Daniel, that through your group-controled mindset you will react when I say...I keep poking at this because I am passionate about it.  The group mind you are "in" (and maybe dont even have necessary perspective to see how deep you are "in") will cause you to react (and yes, you are this predictable) to my passion as though it is a bad thing.  And see, this too is a facet of being "in" the stands rather than "in" the game.  People are in the stands because life, to them, is scary...too scary to engage in...and someone having passion...well that is really scary.  But from "in" the game...passion is a natural part of playing full out, of really putting one's self fully into it.  This, passion, is "untennable" for people who's whole agenda is to stay in the stands...
 
...and when you 'get' that, you will see just how all the stories you, and they, tell themselves about how "in" life you are...are just plan silly.  They are stories you tell yourself, and not-real. 
 
My words are invitations for you to get in the game.  Now, you can either say "yes" to that, or "no."  It is always one or the other.  I am not inviting you to my view, to buy anything...just simply to life itself...to living your life more fully...to be-ing "in" your life playing it full on rather that "in" the stands running commentary on your life.  I am passionate about it because I have watched so many people be transformed and it is just friggen amazing when they suddenly get it.  I am passionate about it, perhaps a bit unreasonably...so many are concerned with being reasonable, not making waves...but not me.  I know what life is like in the stands...but I also know what life is like in the game, I know what awaits people...so yeah, I am passionate...
 
And everytime you talk to me there is no doubt that I will keep saying this to you.  From whatever angle I take at the time it all says the same thing...it is all an invite for you to take a look and make a decision for your life.  And I don't do that because I don't love you, I do it because I love you...because I want for you (maybe even more than you want it for yourself) all that your life has to offer...I want you to have the freedom to choose to live your life fully, from on the court rather than in the stands.  Now, once you have that freedom if you choose to live in the stands, running commentary, not really experiencing the ball coming right at you, that is fine. 
 
And I know in your group-controled mind that I am somehow a "bad" person because I care that much about your freedom...but do you even hear how stupid that is??  But then again, people killed Jesus for caring enough to show them something...so really you are doing nothing unique, nothing that hasn't been hard-wired into your system for 5000 plus years.  Let me repeat that because that is really important...it is hard-wired into the experience of being human, and the question is...can you get free of it...or are you just a completely predictable, reactionary, cog???
 
There now, do not read this email...pretend you are aloof..."close" yourself off.  The game is scary, if you step on the court there is a very possible threat that life will become "real" very fast...and omgosh...you might actually *feel* something.  Can't have all that...no...life is scary...stay in the stands...running commentary on the big fish like the Ruiz's, and the small not heard of fish like the Van Hise's and Rapheals.  It is your choice...and it is your life, all I can do is illuminate it and invite you to it. 
 
Now, I am getting back to the game...please understand that I cannot be party to you staying/being in the stands pretending it is fine when it really isn't...so, you will either love me for that or hate me.  I know I present you something scary...a choice...but only when you accept the invitation will you know your fears were silly.  It is like the rope story...can't let go of the rope or you will die (or find that the ground is two inches under your feet lol).
 
How predictable?  Your next email will be one or two lines totally disregarding what I wrote...
 
You will laugh at me for "wasting" my time...but Daniel, what you are reallysaying is that you are "unworthy" of my time...and this is not how I see it.  You...and the quality of your life are completly worthy of my time...your freedom is worthy of my time.  And I am totally selfish in that...hard-wiring has most people in the stands...and there are very few players on the court...I just want more people on the court. 
 
Bye now, *warm laughter* will it be today?
 
With Love & Kindness,
me