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Castaneda and Gurdjieff

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« on: April 01, 2009, 04:26:20 pm »

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Over on a Yahoo! Groups mailing list, the Classic Books discussion turned to Gurdjieff.  I couldn't recall a title to a book so I did a quick search.

On this one site I ran across this book:

The Life & Teachings
of Carlos Castaneda
by William Patrick Patterson

"Since Castaneda's first book, The Teachings of Don Juan, readers have wondered about his sources. Here, shown concept-by-concept, is the primary source of Castaneda's ideas—Gurdjieff's Fourth Way. Also explored is don Juan's true identity, the meaning of Castaneda's "jump into the abyss," the life of the Nagual and his witches. Also included in full is the first reference to Nagualism, anthropologist Daniel Brinton's essay "Nagualism: A Study in Native American Folklore and History" written in 1894."

Is anyone here familiar with this book?  If so, what was your take-away from this work?

I've seen similiarities between Gurdjieff and Castaneda, but have not had time to explore it further.

Anyone else have thoughts on these two and the comparisons?

z

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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 07:52:18 pm »

I don't see a lot of similarities myself, though of course they exist if we look for them.  And all religions or paths seem to have threads of the same truth running through them.   However,  I do not beleive that Guirdjieff was the source for CC's works.   Tongue


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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 07:20:36 am »

my twenty cents
welll.......it does seem apparent that carlos and his 'ahem' disciples had some serious delusions of grandeur goin'on by the end and also seeing that the gravy train that are the books of carlos still are very much in print, some serious examination of where carlos received his infinite wisdom from is in order.
juan has informed (formed in) and still informs my life but i do not like the growing feeling that carlos was collating a wide range of disparate material while also channelling something bigger than his ego....that was big.(and here we are still talking about him....)

personally i am semi-insulted (but not taking it personally...) to find by myself the amount of similiar ideas and concepts in sooo many areas that seem to have been 'cobbled together' to make up the mythos...but to use the language of the mythos....when dealing with potential and in training apprentices, the nagual does not tell them explicitly what he is up to in order to draw them into infinity...being a master stalker, the nagual can create the illusion of whatever is needed to challenge the potential applicant's ideas of what is and what is not.
juan is a world teacher who provided challenge after challenge....carlos carries that tradition on...
(but also remember that julian didnt make it....juan did....if carlos didnt....it is our turn....)
and so...we are challenged to find a truth for ourselves.
agaaaaiiiiinnnnnn............... Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 12:07:59 pm »

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Greetings Volto!

my twenty cents
welll.......it does seem apparent that carlos and his 'ahem' disciples had some serious delusions of grandeur goin'on by the end and also seeing that the gravy train that are the books of carlos still are very much in print, some serious examination of where carlos received his infinite wisdom from is in order.
juan has informed (formed in) and still informs my life but i do not like the growing feeling that carlos was collating a wide range of disparate material while also channelling something bigger than his ego....that was big.


No real reason to be concerned with CC and his ego....


(and here we are still talking about him....)

personally i am semi-insulted (but not taking it personally...) to find by myself the amount of similiar ideas and concepts in sooo many areas that seem to have been 'cobbled together' to make up the mythos...but to use the language of the mythos....when dealing with potential and in training apprentices, the nagual does not tell them explicitly what he is up to in order to draw them into infinity...being a master stalker, the nagual can create the illusion of whatever is needed to challenge the potential applicant's ideas of what is and what is not.
juan is a world teacher who provided challenge after challenge....carlos carries that tradition on...
(but also remember that julian didnt make it....juan did....if carlos didnt....it is our turn....)
and so...we are challenged to find a truth for ourselves.
agaaaaiiiiinnnnnn............... Undecided

A lot of hersay here in regards to CC's party and concepts.  Your last line says it all; finding the truth for ourselves.

What else is there?

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Discipline is, indeed, the supreme joy of feeling reverent awe; of watching, with your mouth open, whatever is behind those secret doors.
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