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Lori Anne
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« on: April 22, 2011, 08:40:12 pm »

So I've been celibate for about a year now, since my last relationship.  I'm kind of thinking of entering into a (sexual, nothing more) relationship with M, a guy I've known for a lot of years, but am a bit torn.  Today it feels like too much work and not worth the effort.  Feels like I have finally cut chords and etc from my last relationship and, while neither Mike or I want a serious relationship, he lives quite far away and would have to travel to see me, I am not sure if this is the right step to take for me at the moment.  I feel like I have a ton of energy and most of my attention is devoted to my Path and children.  I don't know if I want or need the distraction, but more than that, I am wondering if I will somehow lose energy.  Maybe a leak, maybe a drain -- what about those worms I read about somewhere -- energetic sex worms?  Its also true though that we can use sex as a way to boost up our energy, but that does take some intent, and effort on both parts.  Then again, probably I could use this to my advantage no matter what.....

Anyway I am interested in any of your thoughts on celibacy and I am going to post bits of stuff I find relevant, as well.

(The other thing is... I feel like I can see where this will lead, and have the feeling that it's going to get serious quickly and, sure it would  be nice to have a partner to share the tasks.... I like my freedom and independence.  This is another matter though! )

Celibacy...
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 08:40:45 pm »

    Celibacy: Comparing Castaneda and Gurdjieff
    by Corey Donovan

    http://www.sustainedactio...taneda_and_Gurdjieff.htm

    I would hope that none of us begrudge Castaneda having a sex life. I imagine, in fact, that most of us simply marvel at the ability of a seventy-something male to carry on the extremely active and promiscuous sex life that has come to light in recent months. There seems to have been a lot of ironic humor, too, on Castaneda's part, in the way he dealt with his sexual relationships within his inner circle. For example, having adopted his longtime lover--Nury Alexander--as his daughter a few years before his death, Castaneda seemed to take delight in shocking newcomers to his circle with the fact that he had a sexual relationship with the person they first got to know as "Castaneda's daughter."

    Further "cognitive dissonance" comes into play when one recalls the many times Castaneda insisted in public settings that he was celibate, that he did not have time or energy to waste on sex, and, particularly, his tendency to criticize other "gurus" and teachers for not living by their own teachings. One is reminded, for example, of Castaneda's frequent condemnation of Alan Watts as someone who wrote about how to live a spiritual life, but whose sexual life was, at least in Castaneda's mind, contrary to those principles.

    One way to reconcile Castaneda's public pronouncements about celibacy and his own sex life is as follows. Celibacy may be the stage that most of us must go through at some point in eliminating our prior sexual conditioning and in freeing ourselves in order to begin to use our sexuality in ways that can help generate energy and spark certain kinds of expanded awareness.

    Castaneda did make reference to "non-bored ****s," i.e., those whose mothers were orgasmic at the time of their conception and who, as a result, were born with sufficient energy to have all the sex they wanted. Nonetheless, he insisted that most of us were "bored ****s," and that we should all proceed on the assumption that we had no energy to waste on sex. To my mind, Castaneda made this the basis of his "teachings" on sex because he did not trust his audience to give celibacy a try unless it was made virtually an absolute requirement for "seeing energy as it flows." (He certainly did not imagine we would be inspired to try celibacy if we knew how often he was having sex.) The problem with this is that Castaneda thereby created one of his many one-size-fits-all rules of sorcery, which, I think, flies in the face of the fact that there are a multitude of different energetic types among us.

    This is one of many areas where I think Gurdjieff had the more sophisticated teaching, by emphasizing that what was appropriate for one type would not work for other types, and that before changing or adopting any particular behavior, one must first work to determine one's own particular makeup.

    Gurdjieff commented on celibacy in particular in responding to a question about whether one needs to abstain from sex to form the "astral body" [in context, very similar to the concept of Castaneda's "energy body"] in Chapter 12 of Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous:

    "'Here there is not one but a number of questions,' said G. 'In the first place sexual abstinence is necessary for transmutation [i.e., formation of the astral body] only in certain cases, that is, for certain types of people. For others it is not at all necessary. And with yet others it comes by itself when transmutation begins.  I will explain this more clearly. For certain types a long and complete sexual abstinence is necessary for transmutation to begin; this means in other words that without a long and complete sexual abstinence transmutation will not begin. But once it has begun abstinence is no longer necessary. In other cases, that is, with other types, transmutation can begin in a normal sexual life -- and on the contrary, can begin sooner and proceed better with a very great outward expenditure of sex energy. In the third case the beginning of transmutation does not require abstinence, but, having begun, transmutation takes the whole of sexual energy and puts an end to normal sexual life or the outward expenditure of sex energy.'"

    In the same chapter, Gurdjieff also notes:

    "'Sex plays a tremendous role in maintaining the mechanicalness of life. Everything that people do is connected with "sex": politics, religion, art, the theater, music, is all "sex." Do you think people go to the theater or to church to pray or to see some new play? That is only for the sake of appearances. The principal thing in the theater as well as in church, is that there will be a lot of women or a lot of men. This is the center of gravity of all gatherings. What do you think brings people to cafes, to restaurants, to various fetes? One thing only. to various fetes? One thing only. Sex: it is the principal motive force of

    . . . . When sex is clearly conscious of itself and does not cover itself up by anything else it is not the mechanicalness about which I am speaking. On the contrary sex which exists by itself and is not dependent on anything else is already a great achievement. But the evil lies in this constant self-deception!'"
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 08:42:23 pm »

TAISHA ABELAR
The Sorcerer's Crossing

(sorry for the poor formatting!  It was a major pain in the but to get it this good!


    Clara explained that we must start the recapitulation by first focusing our attention on our past sexual

    activity.
    "Why do you have to begin there?" I asked suspiciously.
    "That's where the bulk of our energy is caught," Clara explained. "That's why we must free those

    memories first!"
    "I don't think my sexual encounters were all that important."
    "It doesn't matter. You could have been staring up at the ceiling bored to death, or seeing shooting

    stars or fireworks- someone still left his energy inside you and walked off with a ton of yours."
    I was totally put off by her statement. To go back to my sexual experiences now seemed repugnant.
    "It's bad enough," I said, "to relive my childhood memories, but I won't hash up what happened with

    men."
    Clara looked at me with a raised eyebrow.
    "Besides," I argued, "you'll probably expect me to confide in you. But really, Clara, I don't think

    what I did with men is anyone's business

    Clara resolutely shook her head and said, "Do you want those men you had to continue feeding from

    your energy? Do you want those men to get stronger as you get stronger? Do you want to be their

    source of energy for the rest of your life?
    "No. I don't think you understand the importance of the sexual act or the scope of the recapitulation."
    "You're right, Clara. I don't understand the reason for your bizarre request.
    "And what's this business of men getting stronger because I'm their source of energy? I'm nobody's

    source or provider. I promise you that."

    She smiled and said that she had made a mistake in forcing a confrontation of ideologies at this time.

    "Bear with me," she begged:

    "This is a belief I have chosen to uphold. As you progress with your recapitulation, I will tell you

    about the origin of this belief.
    "Suffice it to say that it is a critical part of the art I'm teaching you."
    "If it's as important as you claim, Clara, perhaps you'd better tell me about it now," I said. "Before we

    go any further with the recapitulation, I'd like to know what I'm getting into."
    "All right, if you insist," she said, nodding.
    She poured some camomile tea into our mugs and added a spoonful of honey to hers.

    the authoritative voice of a teacher enlightening a neophyte, she explained that women, more so

    than men, are the true supporters of the social order, and that to fulfill this role, they have been reared

    uniformly the world over to be at the service of men.

    "It makes no difference whether women are bought right off the slave block, or they are courted and

    loved," she stressed. "Their fundamental purpose and fate is still the same: to nourish, shelter and

    serve men."
    Clara looked at me, I believed, to assess if I was following her argument.
    I thought I was, but my gut reaction was that her entire premise seemed wrong.
    "That may be true in some cases," I said, "but I don't think you can make such sweeping

    generalizations to include all women."

    Clara disagreed vehemently. "The diabolical part of women's servile position is that it doesn't appear

    to be merely a social prescription," she said, "but a fundamental biological imperative."

    "Wait a minute, Clara," I protested. "How did you arrive at that?

    She explained that every species has a biological imperative to perpetuate itself, and that nature has
    provided tools in order to ensure that the merging of female and male energies takes place in the
    most efficient way.

    She said that in the human realm, although the primary function of sexual intercourse is procreation,
    it also has a secondary and covert function, which is to ensure a continual flow of energy from
    women to men.

    Clara put such a stress on the word 'men' that I had to ask, "Why do you say it as if it were a one-way

    street? Isn't the sexual act an even exchange of energy between male and female?"

    "No," she said emphatically. "Men leave specific energy lines inside the body of women. They are

    like luminous tapeworms that move inside the womb, sipping up energy."
    "That sounds positively sinister," I said, humoring her.
    She continued her exposition in utter seriousness. "The energy lines are put there for an even more

    sinister reason," she said, ignoring my nervous laughter, "which is to ensure that a steady supply of

    energy reaches the man who deposited them.

    "Those lines of energy, established through sexual intercourse, collect and steal energy from the

    female body to benefit the male who left them there."

    Clara was so adamant in what she was saying that I couldn't joke about it but had to take her

    seriously.

    As I listened, I felt my nervous smile turn into a snarl.
    "Not that I accept for a minute what you're saying, Clara," I said, "but just out of curiosity, how in

    the world did you arrive at such a preposterous notion? Did someone tell you about this?"
    "Yes, my teacher told me about it.
    "At first, I didn't believe him either," she admitted, "but he also taught me the art of freedom, and

    that means that I learned tosee the flow of energy.

    "Now I know he was accurate in his assessments, because I can see the worm-like filaments in

    women's bodies for myself. You, for example, have a number of them, all of them still active."

    "Let's say that's true, Clara," I said uneasily. "Just for the sake of argument, let me ask you why

    should this be possible? Isn't this one-way energy flow unfair to women?"
    "The whole world is unfair to women!" she exclaimed. "But that's not the point."
    "What is the point, Clara? I know I'm missing it."

    "Nature's imperative is to perpetuate our species," she explained. "In order to ensure that this
    continues to take place, women have to carry an excessive burden at their basic energy level, and that
    means a flow of energy that taxes women."

    "But you still haven't explained why this should be so," I said, already becoming swayed by the force

    of her convictions.

    "Women are the foundation for perpetuating the human species," Clara replied. "The bulk of the energy comes from them, not only to gestate, give birth and nourish their offspring, but also for ensuring that the male plays his part in this whole process."

    Clara explained that ideally this process ensures that a woman feeds her man energetically through the filaments he left inside her body, so that the man becomes mysteriously dependent on her at an ethereal level.

    This is expressed in the overt behavior of the man returning to the same woman again and again to

    maintain his source of sustenance.

    That way, Clara said, nature ensures that men, in addition to their immediate drive for sexual

    gratification, set up more permanent bonds with women.

    "These energy fibers left in women's wombs also become merged with the energy makeup of the

    offspring, should conception take place," Clara elaborated:

    "It may be the rudiments of family ties, for the energy from the father merges with that of the fetus,

    and enables the man to sense that the child is his own.
    "These are some of the facts of life a girl's mother neve

    omen are reared to be easily seduced by men, without the slightest idea of the consequences of

    sexual intercourse in terms of the energy drainage it produces in them. This is my point and this is

    what is not fair."

    As I listened to Clara talk, I had to agree that some of what she said made sense to me at a deep

    bodily level.

    She urged me not just to agree or disagree with her, but to think this through and evaluate what she

    had said in a courageous, unprejudiced and intelligent manner.

    "It's bad enough that one man leaves energy lines inside a woman's body," Clara went on, "although

    that is necessary for having offspring and ensuring their survival.

    "But to have the energy lines of ten or twenty men inside her feeding off her luminosity is more than

    anyone can bear. No wonder women can never lift up their heads."

    "Can a woman get rid of those lines?" I asked, more and more convinced that there was some truth to

    A woman carries those luminous worms for seven years," Clara said, "after which time they

    disappear or fade out.

    "But the wretched part is that when the seven years are about to be up, the whole army of worms, from the very first man a woman had to the very last one, all become agitated at once so that the woman is driven to have sexual intercourse again.

    Then all the worms spring to life stronger than ever to feed off the woman's luminous energy for

    another seven years. It really is a never-ending cycle."
    "What if the woman is celibate?" I asked. "Do the worms just die out?"
    "Yes, if she can resist having sex for seven years.
    "But it's nearly impossible for a woman to remain celibate like that in our day and age, unless she

    becomes a nun, or has money to support herself."

 

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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 08:44:45 pm »

I have another perspective here, just thinking about energy and losing it during sex.   A factor I hadn't considered is the energy level of the other person, too.
So what I concluded, is that being a warrior, sorceress, I can do whatever I set my intent on, with benevolent results to myself.  As long as I remain aware at all times.

I beleive  M is definitely a warrior, it could be a good experience for me.  Also could be a chance to tie up loose ends, so possibility for an energetic recap just so long as I do not incur emotional attachments. 

    And what about celibacy as a way of saving energy, one of the most controversial points in your books?

    A: Celibacy is recommended, the old nagual told us, for the majority of us. Not for moral reasons, but because we don’t have enough energy. He made us see how the majority of us have been conceived in the midst of marital boredom. As a pragmatic sorcerer, the old nagual maintained that conception is something of final importance. He said that if the mother wasn’t able to have an orgasm at the moment of conception, the result was something he called "a bored conception." There is no energy under such conditions. The old nagual recommended celibacy for those who have been conceived under such circumstances.
          Another thing he recommended as a means of storing energy was the dissolution of patterns of behavior that lead to chaos, such as the incessant preoccupation with romantic courtship; the presentation and defense of the self in everyday life; excessive routines and, above all, the tremendous insistence on the concerns of the self.
          If these points are achieved, any one of us can have the necessary energy to use time, space and the social order more intelligently.
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 11:51:02 am »

hi Lori-Ann: happy easter?

you picked a hot one here, sure the teen spirits are ready for an outing?

http://books.google.de/books?hl=de&lr=&id=wt6tHiSYSQcC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=celibacy+vs.+sexual+abstinence&ots=DscYMW9oBj&sig=16mEEH2Y6LDayQJcUGkK87jeprk#v=onepage&q&f=false
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 10:39:33 pm »


Thanks for the link, good stuff there.
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Lori~ann


« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2013, 02:51:58 pm »

Wow!  Old topic.   Just update, didn't work out with M.  Good thing as I discovered he was lying to me.   He had a gf the whole time he was making plans with me.

Water under the bridge now, but two plus years later and I have seemed to have solved this problem and answered many of my own questions.  Funny how this works!
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Everything on the earth has a purpose, every disease an herb to cure it
guest147
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2014, 10:29:13 am »



\!!

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Wanderlust-lyrics-Paul-McCartney/D072AC2D41D68C2948256A4C00123315

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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 05:52:39 pm »

ahh, which of your outfits are you going to wear for your academy awards?



\!!



http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/for-sale-systems-that-can-secretly-track-where-cellphone-users-go-around-the-globe/2014/08/24/f0700e8a-f003-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html?hpid
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