The Gypsy Garden
March 29, 2024, 05:51:43 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: All you need is Sunshine, Freedom, and a little flower
 
  Home Help Store Classifieds Gallery Contact Login Register Chat  

Atheism

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Atheism  (Read 132 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Skyflower
Administrator
Sage
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2398


Lori~ann


« on: June 29, 2013, 11:53:59 pm »

Another thread prompted me to want to discuss atheism a little bit.  This should just be for information purposes as I certainly do not want to get bashing atheists as they have as much right to their beliefs as any Christian, Wiccan or Jew does (etc).  But I do feel like Atheism gets a bad rap and that some people hide behind the word in order to cause trouble so I'd just like to show the other side of the coin, the one that I can identify with.

From The American Atheists (.org)
"Atheists they define their lifestyle as follows. An atheist loves himself and his fellow man instead of a god. An atheist accepts that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth – for all men together to enjoy. An atheist accepts that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and to enjoy it. An atheist accepts that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help lead to a life of fulfillment."

Definitions and distinctions
A diagram showing the relationship between the definitions of weak/strong and implicit/explicit atheism. Explicit strong/positive/hard atheists (in purple on the right) assert that "at least one deity exists" is a false statement. Explicit weak/negative/soft atheists (in blue on the right) reject or eschew belief that any deities exist without actually asserting that "at least one deity exists" is a false statement. Implicit weak/negative atheists (in blue on the left) would include people (such as young children and some agnostics) who do not believe in a deity, but have not explicitly rejected such belief. (Sizes in the diagram are not meant to indicate relative sizes within a population.)

Writers disagree how best to define and classify atheism,[28] contesting what supernatural entities it applies to, whether it is an assertion in its own right or merely the absence of one, and whether it requires a conscious, explicit rejection. Atheism has been regarded as compatible with agnosticism,[29][30][31][32][33][34][35] and has also been contrasted with it.[36][37][38] A variety of categories have been used to distinguish the different forms of atheism.
Range

Some of the ambiguity and controversy involved in defining atheism arises from difficulty in reaching a consensus for the definitions of words like deity and god. The plurality of wildly different conceptions of god and deities leads to differing ideas regarding atheism's applicability. The ancient Romans accused Christians of being atheists for not worshiping the pagan deities. Gradually, this view fell into disfavor as theism came to be understood as encompassing belief in any divinity.[39]

With respect to the range of phenomena being rejected, atheism may counter anything from the existence of a deity, to the existence of any spiritual, supernatural, or transcendental concepts, such as those of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Taoism.[40]
Implicit vs. explicit
Main article: Implicit and explicit atheism

Definitions of atheism also vary in the degree of consideration a person must put to the idea of gods to be considered an atheist. Atheism has sometimes been defined to include the simple absence of belief that any deities exist. This broad definition would include newborns and other people who have not been exposed to theistic ideas. As far back as 1772, Baron d'Holbach said that "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God."[41] Similarly, George H. Smith (1979) suggested that: "The man who is unacquainted with theism is an atheist because he does not believe in a god. This category would also include the child with the conceptual capacity to grasp the issues involved, but who is still unaware of those issues. The fact that this child does not believe in god qualifies him as an atheist."[42] Smith coined the term implicit atheism to refer to "the absence of theistic belief without a conscious rejection of it" and explicit atheism to refer to the more common definition of conscious disbelief. Ernest Nagel contradicts Smith's definition of atheism as merely "absence of theism", acknowledging only explicit atheism as true "atheism".[43]
Positive vs. negative
Main article: Negative and positive atheism

Philosophers such as Antony Flew[44] and Michael Martin[39] have contrasted positive (strong/hard) atheism with negative (weak/soft) atheism. Positive atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Negative atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a negative or a positive atheist. The terms weak and strong are relatively recent, while the terms negative and positive atheism are of older origin, having been used (in slightly different ways) in the philosophical literature[44] and in Catholic apologetics.[45] Under this demarcation of atheism, most agnostics qualify as negative atheists.

While Martin, for example, asserts that agnosticism entails negative atheism, most agnostics see their view as distinct from atheism,[citation needed] which they may consider no more justified than theism or requiring an equal conviction. The assertion of unattainability of knowledge for or against the existence of gods is sometimes seen as indication that atheism requires a leap of faith.[unreliable source? Common atheist responses to this argument include that unproven religious propositions deserve as much disbelief as all other unproven propositions,and that the unprovability of a god's existence does not imply equal probability of either possibility. Scottish philosopher J. J. C. Smart even argues that "sometimes a person who is really an atheist may describe herself, even passionately, as an agnostic because of unreasonable generalised philosophical skepticism which would preclude us from saying that we know anything whatever, except perhaps the truths of mathematics and formal logic." Consequently, some atheist authors such as Richard Dawkins prefer distinguishing theist, agnostic and atheist positions along a spectrum of theistic probability—the likelihood that each assigns to the statement "God exists".
Definition as impossible or impermanent

Before the 18th century, the existence of God was so universally accepted in the western world that even the possibility of true atheism was questioned. This is called theistic innatism—the notion that all people believe in God from birth; within this view was the connotation that atheists are simply in denial.[52]

There is also a position claiming that atheists are quick to believe in God in times of crisis, that atheists make deathbed conversions, or that "there are no atheists in foxholes."[53] There have however been examples to the contrary, among them examples of literal "atheists in foxholes."

Some atheists have doubted the very need for the term "atheism". In his book Letter to a Christian Nation, Sam Harris wrote:

    In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.[55]
Report Spam   Logged



Everything on the earth has a purpose, every disease an herb to cure it

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Skyflower
Administrator
Sage
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2398


Lori~ann


« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2013, 11:55:52 pm »

Metaphysical arguments
Further information: Monism and Physicalism

One author writes:

    "Metaphysical atheism … includes all doctrines that hold to metaphysical monism (the homogeneity of reality). Metaphysical atheism may be either: a) absolute — an explicit denial of God's existence associated with materialistic monism (all materialistic trends, both in ancient and modern times); b) relative — the implicit denial of God in all philosophies that, while they accept the existence of an absolute, conceive of the absolute as not possessing any of the attributes proper to God: transcendence, a personal character or unity. Relative atheism is associated with idealistic monism (pantheism, panentheism, deism)."[63]

Epicurus is credited with first expounding the problem of evil. David Hume in his Dialogues concerning Natural Religion (1779) cited Epicurus in stating the argument as a series of questions:[64] "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Logical arguments
Further information: Deductive arguments against the existence of God, Problem of evil, Divine hiddenness

Logical atheism holds that the various conceptions of gods, such as the personal god of Christianity, are ascribed logically inconsistent qualities. Such atheists present deductive arguments against the existence of God, which assert the incompatibility between certain traits, such as perfection, creator-status, immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, omnibenevolence, transcendence, personhood (a personal being), nonphysicality, justice, and mercy.[12]

Theodicean atheists believe that the world as they experience it cannot be reconciled with the qualities commonly ascribed to God and gods by theologians. They argue that an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent God is not compatible with a world where there is evil and suffering, and where divine love is hidden from many people.[14] A similar argument is attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, the founder of Buddhism
Report Spam   Logged



Everything on the earth has a purpose, every disease an herb to cure it
Skyflower
Administrator
Sage
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2398


Lori~ann


« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 10:57:25 am »

I think that the atheism argument, when it comes from the viewpoint of religious or godly people who think atheism is bad is based on 3 things.
One - Fear -- fear that atheists must be devil worshipers
Two-  Control -- I can't understand it so I want to control it
Three -- Self importance -- I want them to be just like me.  My experiences are great and they should have them too

I received this in a PM yesterday and I think it illustrates pretty clearly what some people feel regarding atheists. 
First, an assumption that they are misguided in their beleifs, then an assumption that they are missing out on the joys of life and next, the assumption that atheists do not have miraculous, joyful or spiritual experiences.  True, some don't, but perhaps there are just as many that do. 

" I wouldn't want others to miss <anything>, regarding God. There is so much in that area that I am thankful for. Many of my miraculous experiences were from God and I think if only they knew what they were missing. "

I have my experiences and I appreciate and am grateful for them, but I wouldn't want to pity someone else for having different experiences. 
It's a huge world, all beliefs are valid.
Report Spam   Logged



Everything on the earth has a purpose, every disease an herb to cure it
guest147
Guest
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 12:14:10 pm »

I think that the atheism argument, when it comes from the viewpoint of religious or godly people who think atheism is bad is based on 3 things.
One - Fear -- fear that atheists must be devil worshipers
Two-  Control -- I can't understand it so I want to control it
Three -- Self importance -- I want them to be just like me.  My experiences are great and they should have them too

I received this in a PM yesterday and I think it illustrates pretty clearly what some people feel regarding atheists. 
First, an assumption that they are misguided in their beleifs, then an assumption that they are missing out on the joys of life and next, the assumption that atheists do not have miraculous, joyful or spiritual experiences.  True, some don't, but perhaps there are just as many that do. 

" I wouldn't want others to miss <anything>, regarding God. There is so much in that area that I am thankful for. Many of my miraculous experiences were from God and I think if only they knew what they were missing. "

I have my experiences and I appreciate and am grateful for them, but I wouldn't want to pity someone else for having different experiences. 
It's a huge world, all beliefs are valid.


well worded.

i wouldn't want to be accused of / maligned for fears.
there has been much attempted intimidation, and to find a reason for such is very time-consuming.

am i a control freak? and that due to lack of understanding?

self-importance, and pride going before a fall ......

perfection, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
but still more or less valid.

\!!

Quote
I have my experiences and I appreciate and am grateful for them, but I wouldn't want to pity someone else for having different experiences. 
It's a huge world, all beliefs are valid.




how do we, each of us, come to terms with 'authority'?



Report Spam   Logged
Skyflower
Administrator
Sage
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2398


Lori~ann


« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 12:21:38 pm »

Like I said, formerly labeling myself as an atheist (now however, more of a Universe-ist Wink ) I have been on the receiving end of much aggression, intimidation, accusation and insults about my chosen belief system.  People can be cruel when faced with something they do not understand. 

Report Spam   Logged



Everything on the earth has a purpose, every disease an herb to cure it
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site!
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy